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 Posted: Nov 28, 2012 05:56PM
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This may not do any good...

"If I had a nickel for every celebratory nighttime test drive that turns triumph, pride and joy into an urge to vomit." - Air2Air

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 Posted: Nov 28, 2012 05:43PM
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I got under it with better lighting and more clearance tonight. I have a blown out gaiter and it looks pretty fresh. There is a lot of oil splattered around. Would this cause my symptoms? Everything still sounds good when working the wheel. When I wiggly the brake drum on the left, I can feel a little jiggle within the rack, and hear a little noise. I am going to try and shoot a video of it and see if you guys can get an idea.

Hold please...

"If I had a nickel for every celebratory nighttime test drive that turns triumph, pride and joy into an urge to vomit." - Air2Air

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 Posted: Nov 28, 2012 02:42PM
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Like Ian stated suspension acts differently with the weight of the Mini on it. Jack the car up and place jack stands under the lower arms and let the jack down until the full weight is on the suspension, then do all the previous checks for wear and tightness and as stated before you can sometimes feel wear better than you can see it.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Nov 28, 2012 02:16PM
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Hmmmm.....I am not sure what it is then. Everything else looks solid, bolted down well, do excessive wiggle, no weird noises (or any noises for that matter). This is going to be fun to figure out.

"If I had a nickel for every celebratory nighttime test drive that turns triumph, pride and joy into an urge to vomit." - Air2Air

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 Posted: Nov 28, 2012 02:13PM
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I'll have a bet that's not it....

The cone may seem loose with the suspension on full droop but will tighten up when the weight of teh car goes on it.  Even if its not seated properly the effect would be to make teh height of that corner of the car "wrong".  Even if it was moving I doubt it would produce the symptoms you describe...

I'd keep looking....

 

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Nov 28, 2012 07:24AM
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I got after it for a few minutes last night. I got the car up on stands, removed the wheels and started poking around. I laid under the car and had my wife move the wheel from one extreme to the other. The spline mechanism is silent, and seems to work perfect. So I started hunting around a little more, and I think I may have found the source.

The front left trumpet is popping up and out of the a-arm. This would be another rookie mistake on my part I presume. We started to tear into that side of the front suspension, and we compressed that cone before we realized that the bolt was totally stripped out that holds the shock absorber on. So we put it all back together, and I ordered the part. Well, it looks like we pulled up on that cone enough to loosen the entire cone / trumpet / nylon cup assembly so it's not riding properly. I am going to complete that suspension replacement this weekend and see if the steering comes back. The rack sounded good, seemed tight....I don't think that's the problem....

"If I had a nickel for every celebratory nighttime test drive that turns triumph, pride and joy into an urge to vomit." - Air2Air

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 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 07:25PM
 Edited:  Nov 28, 2012 03:39AM
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The splined end piece on the steering column shaft is not available new from either our host, or even from UK.

However, it is available (aftermarket CNC machined) here in Australia. And yes, they will ship overseas.
//www.minisport.com.au/prod2222.htm 

 [edit] BTW all Mini racks have the same 9/16" spline on the pinion.

Kevin G

1360 power- Morris 1300 auto block, S crank & rods, Russell Engineering RE282 sprint cam, over 125HP at crank, 86.6HP at the wheels @7000+.

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 07:07PM
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I am not a fan of web diagnosis - in fact the opposite. Speculation can be fun - adn sometime give some guidance - but its not a good tool.  There are lots of things that might be wrong and without direct observation of the patient we're pretty much reduced to wild guesses.  

"...its like the wheel isn't attached to anything for about 10 degrees of steering wheel rotation and then it starts to turn..." This tells me the rack is stuffed   "..and it can be a little inconsistent. Sometimes it feels fine, and then it doesn't...." and this tells me it isn't.  The first suggests there's play between the rack and pinion while the second bits says there isn't (because it won't "heal" itself - the gap will always be there) and suggests that some other part is loose - but tight enough not to move unless subjected to sufficient load  ????????? 

To me it sounds like you may always have had a problem (because I can't see how antything you did (or at least said you did) could cause an issue.  Its reasonable to assume that the new bits may be emphasising an existing condition....

Bad wheel alignment can definitely cause woolly handling.

Try parking the car with one (front) wheel hard up against the kerb (this is to prevent the wheel from moving (as much as possible).  Now, have you able assistant gently turn the steering wheel left and right.  Because of flex in the tyre wall you will probably be able to turn the wheel about 45 degrees.  You now go around and look at all the joints to see if you can see anything moving in a manner that was not intended...

Inner end of bottom arm moving in and out??  Front end of tie rod??  Hub (ball joints) moving (other than rotating) in relation to outer end of top and bottom arms?? Subframe in relation to body?? Steering arm in relation to hub??  Lift the carpet and see whether the base of the steering column is moving (sideways/up adn down) in relation to the hole in the firewall?? You will probably have a hole in the firewall where the steering column would go if it was RHD rather than LHD (orVV).  Prise out the rubber bung and you will be able to see if the rack is moving as your assitant turns the wheel....

Sometimes its easier to feel movement in a joint rather than see it..

Good luck, Ian

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 03:58PM
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US


Its been my experience that too much toe-in feels similar to what you're describing. Car will dart left and right when you know that's not where you pointed it. So could quite a few other things. Worn tie rods. Loose rack, which, even if its only slipping and 1/8" left and right translates into uneasy feelings while driving. One or both steering arms could've come loose.

Check everything else before condemning the rack and pinion. That being said, I'm the guy who replaced the racks in both minis I have. The first because a previous owner welded the steering shaft to it and the second because so much else was bad or wrong, how could I trust it? Turns out it was probably the only part in the front of the car worth keeping. Neither vehicle was road worthy when I bought them.

At least they weren't as bad as the '68 MG "B" I bought one dark night, while it was raining.

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 02:47PM
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Ian, I have not had the wheels aligned, but it doesn't feel like that is the problem. The play in the wheel is the biggest concern. It's tough to describe accurately, but the wheel frees ok at low speed, but once I get on the freeway, its like the wheel isn't attached to anything for about 10 degrees of steering wheel rotation and then it starts to turn...and it can be a little inconsistent. Sometimes it feels fine, and then it doesn't.

I have a sinking suspicion the problem lies in the splines on either the steering column or the within the rack. I certainly hope not...but based how the pictures in my book look it seems like that makes sense.

I did the drop bracket. I drove the car about 200 miles, before anyone mentioned that the u-bolts needed to be loosen up. So I loosened them then, and drove around the block one time, and then tightened them back down. i have no idea if the rack rotated at all, it didn't feel like anything happened.

When we did the suspension, we just did one corner. I added a new cone and a hi-lo. The lower shock absorber bolt on the other side was cross threaded so we stopped working on it immediately and I ordered a new bolt (which I have now). So the work we did to the one corner leveled the car back out perfectly.

Doing the cone doesn't seem like the cause, but it could be. We didn't loosen anything to do with the steering rack when we did the work though.

"If I had a nickel for every celebratory nighttime test drive that turns triumph, pride and joy into an urge to vomit." - Air2Air

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 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 02:32PM
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First thng to do is to check that the rack mounts are actually tight... Look for 4 nuts - 2 per side on the lower edge of the firewall in line with where the steering column meets the firewall....

Its not unusual for the drop bracket installer to undo the bolts to allow the rack rotate - and then forget to re-tighten them...

And, noting teh suspension work...did you have the wheels aligned??

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:15AM
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Now, just to add another possibility in to make sure this drives you mad, check the rear radius arms as well. If the shaft is worn, the rears can track on random paths just a bit out from the front end of the car. On our mini, this showed up as a wandering around at speed, and an unsettling washout feeling going into corners before the suspension settled in.

 rusted subframe bolts are the hardest material known to man...

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:02AM
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Ditto previous posts concerning serious possible problems, but start with checking the lugnuts to be sure they're tight. 45 ft lbs is the torque setting (OK, let the pile-on begin). Then work your way in, so to speak, checking the other possibilities as noted.

N J

Sarcasm - Because beating the crap out of someone is illegal.

Avatar:  'B, bye Veruca. Luv ya.

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 09:51AM
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Agreed. I need to get it up in the air and investigate for sure. I will have a peek at it tomorrow night. Hopefully it's something loose.

"If I had a nickel for every celebratory nighttime test drive that turns triumph, pride and joy into an urge to vomit." - Air2Air

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 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 09:41AM
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Youu just did a bunch of front end work --- Double check every nut and bolt before jumping to new parts. 

You replaced cones-  Therefore you had to remove the top subframe nut + spindles. Make sure they are all tight.  

Wobble the wheels with the car in the air  with the wheel still on. any play could be culprit

Ball joint check- both top and bottom. Tie rod ends,. Make sure still seated.

Outer axle nuts make sure tight!

Your new suspension heights and new parts could have the alighnment out of wack and now its following the road differently than before.

Just ideas- before buying new parts all the time, Im sure you have had enough of ordering parts for this "little project car" already.

 

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 09:24AM
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If the drop bracket did me in...which it may have. Can those spline pieces be replaced, or is a new rack the only way?

"If I had a nickel for every celebratory nighttime test drive that turns triumph, pride and joy into an urge to vomit." - Air2Air

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 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 08:45AM
 Edited:  Nov 27, 2012 08:47AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt4dinner
I'm not driving it. I do have a drop bracket on the steering column. Is that causing the problem? It was fine at first. Is that connecting something that I can look at with the car intact? Just thinking about where the steering column enters the floor...it seems that connection would be impossible to see from below the car.

If you don't loosen up the rack mounting u-bolts when installing a drop bracket bad things happen. 
At the end of the steering column is an internal spline & a pinch bolt to keep everything tight. It engages an external spline at the rack.
When you install a drop bracket the column and rack splines will be in a bind unless you loosen up the u-bolts and rotate the rack to match.
If you installed the drop bracket, shame on the vendor for not giving you a heads up. If the DPO* installed it, thank him for the excitement.

*-Dumb Previous Owner... sooner or later we're all that guy

Edited to add: If the rack to steering column checks out okay, Steve's (coopertune) suggestions would be next in line. And, from all the issues you've been having probably not a bad idea to do it anyhow.

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 08:34AM
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I do alot of front sub frame rebuilds. I have a system where I roll my gantry crane ove the car remove bonnet, exhaust, shifter and brake line. I support the power unit and drop the complete sub frame brakes and all. I know this does not help you. To the point if your sub frame is located by two big bolts (one either side) it's rubber mounted. The fronts and rears tend to delaminate and the top ones go mushy. A little test, drive down the street turn left then go straight and check the steering wheel. If the wheel is off center try a right turn and see if it's off to the other side. If so the sub frame is floating under the shell. Everyone has a thought, some like alloy front mounts plastic tops and rubber rears. Others like all stock and plan to change every ten years or so. I'm currently doing an all solid set up and I'm thinking this will be my choice from now on.

If this is not the case I'd suggest you check those rack U bolts and jack the front off the ground get a friend to hold the steering wheel and see if there is any free play in the steering rod ends ( grasp wheels at 3 and 9 and push pull) and check the off side (non driver side) inner rack bush. Slide under and pull up and down on the steering link from rack to steering arm. If there is any play there it's either the inner bush or the joint on that end. Either would be a good reason to buy a new rack. Hope it helps. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 08:04AM
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I'm not driving it.

I do have a drop bracket on the steering column. Is that causing the problem? It was fine at first. Is that connecting something that I can look at with the car intact? Just thinking about where the steering column enters the floor...it seems that connection would be impossible to see from below the car.

"If I had a nickel for every celebratory nighttime test drive that turns triumph, pride and joy into an urge to vomit." - Air2Air

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 Posted: Nov 27, 2012 07:28AM
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Don't even think about driving the car in that condition. You could very well loose any steering control and make a really bad day of it.
Is there a steering column drop bracket installed? If so, most likely, the rack mounts were not loosened up to re-align the column shaft to the spline on the rack. First thing I would look at is that connection.

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