Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
May 17, 2018 05:07PM | dklawson | |
May 17, 2018 10:46AM | Dan Moffet | |
May 16, 2018 04:18PM | tothefloor | |
May 16, 2018 01:05PM | Dan Moffet | |
May 11, 2018 06:36AM | dklawson | |
May 11, 2018 05:05AM | Dan Moffet | |
May 11, 2018 05:00AM | Dan Moffet | |
May 10, 2018 03:39PM | Cheleker | |
May 10, 2018 01:08PM | Dan Moffet | |
May 9, 2018 09:21PM | 1963SV2 | |
May 9, 2018 01:10PM | Dan Moffet | Edited: May 9, 2018 01:12PM |
May 4, 2018 07:09AM | tothefloor | |
May 4, 2018 06:50AM | malsal | Edited: May 4, 2018 07:20AM |
May 4, 2018 05:33AM | Dan Moffet | |
May 3, 2018 07:51PM | malsal | |
May 3, 2018 04:12PM | tothefloor | Edited: May 4, 2018 05:08AM |
May 3, 2018 04:03PM | swindrum | |
May 3, 2018 02:06PM | Dan Moffet | |
May 3, 2018 07:50AM | dklawson | |
May 3, 2018 06:03AM | Dan Moffet |
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I suggest that since the system has been open that you crack each joint open from the front to rear of the car. Start with the connection of the pipe to the MC. Crack it open and pump the pedal gently until brake fluid drips out. Close that joint and move to the next one down the line. Keep doing that, going from joint to joint until you reach the rear wheel cylinders.
I mentioned I don't use the Pump-pump-pump-crack method of bleeding brakes because it does tend to shift the proportioning valve and close off flow to the rear cylinders. Any fast, firm pumping will do that.
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The master cylinder seems to be primed and holding pressure but I can't get any fluid to drain from the rear bleeders. Before removing he old master, I'd left the right rear not snugged up and it drained a bit onto the floor. The left rear seems bone-dry - I had removed the bleeder completely to clean it and make sure it was not plugged. I'm beginning to suspect that the proportioning valve is stuck. I'm also working alone as my wife is out of town for a funeral, so I've no-one to work the brake pedal at the moment.
I will probably be working my way through the system to flush and replace fluid and bleed air out of each section.
Question: On a yellow-band master cylinder, does the upper section serve the rear or front brakes? (System is split front/rear with 8.4" disks on the front.)
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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I used a short scrap piece of 1/4" steel brake line tubing to align the holes from the clutch pedal side, then slipped the pivot pin in from the correct side. Pretty tricky task as I could only get one eye on it so had to guess at distance to line the pin up with the tubing. I was surprised when it actually slipped in. I was doubly surprised to see the hole for the cotter pin actually lined up properly. It was easy to slip the cotter pin in and get it turned around but a challenge to spread its wings and bend them back.
Tomorrow I start the bleeding process.
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While available online, many auto parts stores carry Speed Bleeders. Measure what you have and compare to what you find in the local stores.
I use stock bleed nipples and have bleed hoses with inline check valves instead. The check valves were free while I would have to buy Speed Bleeders so it was a simple decision for me. If I had to pay for the check valves... I'd go with the Speed Bleeders.
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There are at least two 2-person methods of bleeding. The one I've seen a lot of guys do is to have one guy in the car who pumps madly to build up pressure then holds the pedal down while the second guy cracks the bleed nipple open. I don't use that method.
The method I use is sometimes called the flush method. One guy under the car cracks the bleed nipple open and calls to the second guy to slowly push the pedal down. At the end of stroke the guy in the car calls "down" to the first guy who closes the bleed nipple and calls back "release". The cycle repeats itself until clear liquid without bubbles is seen in the clear tube. You can generally get by with only one person doing this method if you have a tube with a check valve inline OR if you buy Speed Bleeders.
If you have let air in the system you may find the pump-pump-pump-release method does not allow you to bleed the rear brakes because it spools the proportioning valve to the closed position.
Do you know which sizes would fit mid 1980's 8.4" disk calipers and rear drum cylinders?
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Heeding the advice about a pillow etc, I had a think about it - I concluded I could hold my head up but lying over the sill and cross-member, not to mention the seat brackets, I concluded a flat surface to lie on would be beneficial. Conveniently, there was a scrap piece of plywood standing right next to the Mini that fit from the gear shift to about a foot beyond the door sill. With some wood blocking in the rear footwell and a bench and blocking outside the car, which is on jack stands, I had a platform at convenient sitting height where I could sit down outside the car, lie back and get a great view of all the wires between me and the top of the brake pedal. Once I figured out where I needed to see and repositioned about 8 or 9 times, I could actually see the cotter pin. I was able to get it out using mostly patience, a piece of what I think is 1/8" welding rod (I don't weld) and some standard length needle-nose pliers.
The pipe fittings to the master cylinder came undone with WD40 and gentle persuasion, as did the hold-down nuts. Once it was out to the bench, I drained the old master cylinder - pretty murky!
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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Did someone recommend bench bleeding your new master?? Well worth it.
I think DOT 5 (synthetic) fluid was pretty rare back in the 80s ... so DOT 3/4 would be pretty safe bet. However, what ever it is, its going to be petty manky by now and (no doubt) needs replacing..
It would be madness not to go for complete replacement... Which is where the "Ezibleed" comes into its own. Especially if you choose a fluid that is a different colour. You can use any of the old methods ... (at least those recommending doing one wheel at a time) just keep pumping until the new stuff comes though.
Basically the numbers indicate the fluids boiling point - the higher the better. As long you stay way from DOT5 unless you're going for complete flush and replace ... and even then I would be using new seals ALL 'round - DOT 5 is different chemistry to 3/4/5.1 and is not compatible. DOT5.1 is compatible with 3 and 4 and has he highest BP... but is not that common and (I seem to recall) more expensive.
And... just a personal perspective .. but I find the old method of sticking a length of clear tube into, say, half a glass jar of new fluid and gently pumping away has a lot to recommend it... You need two people (or maybe a remote camera) to watch the fluid coming out while pumping the pedal. On the downstroke you'll see old fluid and bubbles while the upstroke will suck a bit of the fluid in the jar back up the tube (the bubbles float away). Just keep pumping away gently until you see only clear fluid being expelled... But, MAKE SURE you check the level in the master cylinder regularly.
I do have an Ezibleed but you need to be VERY sure that you get a good seal between the master cap and the device ...and don't use too much pressure (don't ask me how I know

Cheers, Ian
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One question: Assuming the fluid has never been changed, in a mid-1980's Mini, would it have DOT3 or DOT4 and since I will be flushing the system, wold it matter?
Second question: Is DOT3 any more or less hydroscopic than DOT4?
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One time with a rusted stubborn split pin that would not come loose i was able to remove it from the top side with the master loose you can just about reach it with the brake pedal firmly pushed to the floor and a long set of needle nose pliers or hemostats.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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Update: rear bleeders cracked free without incident. No fluid came out of the left one even when completely removed for cleaning. I thought it was plugged but it wasn't. I suspect the master cylinder's seals have come adrift from the piston/shuttle, preventing even leak-down by gravity. Even a tapety-tap-tap with a MFH ( not the BFH) on the sides of the MC didn't free anything.
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I use a small R clip instead of the split pin when re installing the cotter pin just make sure it is short enough to not catch on anything and release itself.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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if your master cyl is done, I highly recommend replacing it, they are under $200 and are a colossal pain in the butt to rebuild...
i use the yellow band dual masters in everything, from drum braked 998’s to our twin-cam race Wolseley.
Sean Windrum
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Recently in another thread, someone advised that if one was going to the trouble of taking out and putting back a master cylinder, it might be better to be putting in a new one in case the rebuild was less than satisfactory. If I don't recover any pressure, I'll very likely get a new master cylinder.
Between steady rain today and sore muscles that rendered me useless (okay, maybe more useless than usual), nothing happened with the Mini. Maybe tomorrow.
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As for replacing the MC, do they not sell rebuild kits for it? If you remove the MC and tear it down for inspection you'll know soon enough if it appears to be rebuildable.
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."