Krdennis,

Changing from 13x7's to 13x6's on a VTEC is not for a height differences if there is one but because the 6's are one inch narrower - which for whatever reason cuts back on the torque steer.

That and all the other changes I made along with professional corner balancing took out all the torque steer.  It took a couple years to get to this point but it's now a dream when I romp on the pedal.

I do agree that the turning radius must be larger on the big wheels since I would think it should be way tighter than what it is but when I bought the car it had 13x7's so I know no difference.

Alex,

Wasn't there also something written about the combination of the extra unsprung weight, the larger turning radius (limited rack travel) and the car not having enough overall weight to properly utilize the contact patch all adding up to the less desirable handling of the Sportpack models?

I weighed a Sportspack wheel & tyre a couple of years ago, and it was near-as-makes-no-difference twice the weight of a 10" or 12" wheel & tyre.

Sportspack wheels are spectacularly heavy compared to other 13" wheels available mind you, but I'm 10" all the way except for the odd 12" depending on the car.

@ Rick -

"Conventional wisdom" from a number of Mini Mag/World articles is that Clubbies tend to look better with larger wheels than do Roundnose cars. But, I fully agree that it's horses for courses.

The best combo I've had models your experience in OZ.

Not a fan of 13"ers but to each his or her own...have run 10s exclusively in North America on my own Mini but drove 12s on a loaner Cabriolet (MMW 2005).

I was impressed with the 12" and 165/60s on the '73 Clubman Van in Australia.  Ample room for the 8.4" disc brake set up, did not look out of place and...no body or suspension mods to bother with.

Will be looking at 12s for the Countryman build to get bigger brakes to go with the turbo unit.

I agree with Bluepiper

I have had 10s, 13x5.5, 13x6, and 13x7s

If you are white knuckling any type of drive with 13x7s it is due to your alignment. 

I still want to consider some 12x6s for my vtec swap. The tire height difference are so minimal that I don't believe 61MiniMe has a valid point.

All tires run at different heights so it is still possible to find a tire that is the same height has the 175/50 but for 12" rims.

My Mini has 13" wheels w/ 175/50 tires...I must be missing something myself because I do not see the problem....my car steers dead straight on the freeway and is not bothered by small grooves in the hiway. Dead on at 70 and I can let go of the wheel and it drives true and straight, no shimmy, shake or wander. Until yesterday the car sat VERY low, the trans. was only 4.35 inches from the road surface and it did ride a bit rough.

I just raised the front ride height (at the trans.) to about 5 3/4 inches and it has a much better ride. The lower ride height would be for auto-X I am guessing. Still, it handles like a go cart and the ride is not like a Lexus, but I am old school I guess.  I will sacrafice a bit of a hard ride for better handling and performance. To be honest, I probably need to drive a car with 12's.  When I had my old mini in the mid 1970's I ran with 10" Goodyear gumballs.

The cost and availability of 13" are a bit of an issue though.

Image Gallery

Do you know anyone with a mini with 13" wheels?  Maybe you can take it for a drive and understandwhat everyone is telling you.  Or better yet, if they had a spare set you can put on your mini for a few days.  Just to get it out of your system.

I drove a mk1 with 10" wheels as a daily driver for a little over a year.  Then I wanted to buy another mini.  One with big flares.  And big wheels.  Just because I liked the look.  Bought my current mini with sportspack flares and added huge 13x7 wheels and tires for $900.  Drove it around with a big stupid grin on my face for a while.  After several months of daily use, I found the brakes were worn, and I installed a pair of cross drilled rotors, Green stuff pads, and rebuilt the calipers (awesome combo, BTW).  In addition to the negatives that everyone else already mentioned, I found that it likes to find all the ruts in the road and ride in them.  With the wide wheels, going 70-75mph, I had to white knuckle the steering wheel, otherwise it may suddenly veer into the next lane.  I found myself wanting to go back to 10s. 

After saving up $800 for a Cooper S brake conversion (they were on sale), $800 for a set of 10x6 GB wheels and A008s, I converted it to 10" wheels.  Ride was much better and it didn't track the ruts anymore.

Did I listen to anyone when they told me not to do it?  Nope.  But I learned an expensive lesson just to scratch that itch.  Ended up selling the 13x7s for $350 and the 8.4" brakes with the hubs and CV joints for $300 to Stingray, who got them to 94 touring, who put them on a kick ass pickup he was working on (at least that's where I think they went??)

Eventually I removed the sportspack flares and ended up with a completely different looking mini than I bought, but hey, lesson learned.  A very expensive one.  And that didn't include swapping the "upgraded" 3 clock dash back to a center binnacle....

That looks good! I really like the 12x6 jbw wheels. I may go that route and try different archs to get the look I want.

//www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/210788-the-argentinian-job/

Another example.  I really like these with wood and pickets.  Much cleaner look without drilling into the side of the car to mount the flares like both of these cars have done. 

//forsale.evo.co.uk/private/1648

JBW makes a 12x6 deep dish wheel that goes well with sportpack sized flares.  I intend on putting them on my truck, but different flares.   

Very interesting numbers Ian. I will try to get some weights on six inch wide 10, 12, and 13 inch wheels as well as the common tires. That should be a useful comparison.  I should have emphasised that I went with the narrowest wheel I could still get away with fitting the 175/50-13 A539 tires. The tread width is around 6.75 so a bit wide for five inch wheels.  My measurement wasn't exactly scientific, but I was trying to give a useful dimention to a Lotus racer to decide if they'd fit his application.

I got 19.6 inches for my spare, a Yoko 008 on a Cooper S steel 10 x 4.5 rim. The 13 x 5 with the A539 measured 19.8".  The Falken 12s had to be at least 21" (all measured OFF the car).    I'll see how many new tires I can line up and take a side by side picture to post.

I agree that extra width really complicates clearance at the front. Also messes with alignment, throws the wheel bearing loading into disarray, and generally upsets the balance and "nimbleness" of the Mini (but once again, a LOT of us like the look!). It's hard to tell in the photos, but my front wheel arches have a good two inches removed from the top. We reformed the top seam much wider and stronger than the original to add sideways stiffness and protect the tires in case of contact. When I had the Hi-Los all the way down, it did hit my rubber "flare" in front of the wheel on the OUTSIDE of a turn, where it looks so close in the picture. The bump stops seem to keep the top of the tire safe, so far!  I think if I were to bang into a gas station, the back tires would hit!

Ahh Grasshopper, the reason for the tallest possible wheel/tire combo is because on most VTEC engines the trannys were geared for 15" wheels/tire combos or larger. So unless one likes driving 65mph at 5000 rpm's the 13's are the tallest that normally fit with flares and cutting.

I changed down to 13x6's from 7's because the frame geometry forced the passenger side wheel to stick out one inch and the 6" wide wheels are also a trick to help with the massive torque steer along with a Quaife LSD and Protech shocks and springs.

I also went in on the group by for the taller Ring & Pinion gearing to lower the rpms even more. I can now drive 80 mph at about 4100 rpm! Makes the drive so much more pleasant especially if you have a passenger. My ride is much more a track car than an autocrosser now.

I guess that made it simple. No to 13" wheels. I will stick with the 12" wheels and maybe do some different flares. What about the sport pack flares and a 1" wheel spacer to move the wheels out to fill up the flares? Or would that look totally trashy? Thanks for all the great answers btw!

61MiniMe-
Why do you say 13s are mandatory for vtec conversions?

I am actually thnking of going to 12x6s from my 13x6s.

This post has me interestd in possibly buy some 12s!

Nope. BT, DT. You have to trim starting from roughly just forward of the center of the arch around to the join at the valence and re-bend the lip outward to retain stiffness (stiff upper lip?). There have been a number of mag articles on how to do this. I used the mounted wheel/tire combo as a pattern to trace the cut line on the wing. After the first deep breath, it's Easy-peasy.

Wondering if the baseball bat method would be sufficient to get him a little better clearance without cutting.

Yes, width is the main determinant of the need to cut the fenders/wings. 6" (perhaps 5.5") is the threshold. As the topic involves 13x6 wheels, cuts would be necessary. If 13x6 wheels exist that don't need metal cuts, I'd love to see them! Must have a ton of positive offset...

The numbers above  show the nominal height of the commonly available Mini tyre/wheel combos.  The numbers are "nominal" because one companies "165/70X10" tyre is not actually the same dimension as anothers....  But the comparison is instructive.  Several companies used to provide actual dimension for their various sizes but now I can't find such data on any of the manufacturer sites I've checked..

Does anyone have data to draw up a similar table for weight (perhaps using a representative wheel/tyre combo from a common manufacturer)??

The need to trim arches is not a function of tyre diameter but one of width. A mate who worked for a wheel company was able to build a set of 13" wheels that fitted perfectly under standard (Oz) S wheel arches (with 175/50 tyres).  Jemal's photo illustrates the issue perfectly.  I'd be fascinated to see the car turn sharply across a normal gutter (ie to drive into a gas station...)

As with most things, the answer to the original question is..... it depends..

Cheers, Ian