There is a sandwich plate and thermostat housing made to accomodate a temp sensor if you don't feel like drilling the head, not sure who sells them but they are out there. The temp sensor (not the water temp gauge sensor) on the spi injection cars is located under the inlet manifold which is obviously why it has water flowing through it, not sure where it is on an MPI though maybe the one in the block.

I just appreciate the assistance. The car will eventually be MPi injected using one of Jean Belanger MS ECUs.

First it will be carbureted using the "squirt" for ignition only, but I want to have all the sensors working.

With the extra hose connections from the SPi bottom radiator hose, I may be able to have coolant permanently flowing from the heater outlet by #4 to the bottom hose if there is really nay advanatage to that.. I need to find an alternate heater take off then and also locations for both the temp sensor and temp gauge. I should have had the head drilled for the gauge sensor when it was off. I may still do that.

Never thought that at all mur sorry if my last post came across that way (a problem with the internet and not face to face conversation) no problems here we are all here to learn. I just wrote that quickly and i know better but should have worded it correctly as to not confuse anyone.

I was just clarifying, not jumping on you, you clearly know your stuff and I've been fortunate to learn a few things from your experience.

I was referencing the locations/routing for Terry not the workings, probably not the best choice of word but i am sure he understood what i meant mur.

The heater dumps into the lower hose, it does not feed the heater.

Nicholasupton said that he had discovered a bypass type of  heater valve from a GM or similar product.  It would be useful if you had a situation like SPI, etc where the manifold is to be heated all of the time.

Terry you are right with the post on the 4 locations. You do not need that expensive bottom hose with a carb set up, just get the normal $15 bottom hose and feed your heater off that and either the valve on the head or the sandwich plate. Even after you install the new shroud and bracket you may need a spacer to get the fan as close as you can to the radiator and inside the shroud.

yes that photo helps alot as well as the photos in the email.

Terry

Took this photo of a '94 Spi automatic that is out on the garage floor right now.

Also your radiator is so far away because you are using a cooper lower bracket with an 850 shroud. move the shroud to the other side of the bracket to simulate using a cooper shroud. 

The difference between a cooper shroud and an 850 one is which side the nuts on the lower mount are welded on. They are interchangeable as they are mounted based on the center of the total thickness. 

Hey Terry,

 I'm seeing this now and recognize your need.  But I'm not too sure about the octohoses necessity in your layout.  The inline heater control hose can be nice since they are cheap and even some universal ones would work.

But, as I think Mur said, and I agree, you may not even need the warming effects for cold start.

I hope what is headed your way will help.  Fed x grnd out today, my guess is arrives Fri or Mon.

BTW, I only have complete engine bay photos for spi not cool system only. But they are yours if you need them.  LMK,

Best,

MSH

Baffled again as I thought some of the hoses would line up, maybe they do

There are four hoses to be connected:

• Top right goes to heater
• Bottom right goes to inlet manifold
• Top left heater return
• Bottom right inlet manifold return

I am guessing

The head is already drilled and I had planned to use the old style valve, but when confronted with all the hoses for SPi I have been baffled. Unfortunately or fortunately I have purchased a number of new hoses that I may not need.

I need to retain the sandwich plate, if not for the heater then for multiple temp sensors. DSN Classics make an adapter for the temp sensor on the cylinder block where the heater valve goes.

I am learning one step at a time...

Can you use the original heater take off by drilling the head by #4?  Then you can move coolant from the back of the head all the time.  You would end up with an original looking cooling system, and probably more stable temperatures across the head.

FYI the water pump draws coolant from the bottom of the rad and the heater return and the bypass hose.  It pumps this coolant into the block.  It comes up into the head and really picks up heat.  Some goes out the heater take off to the heater and manifold if you choose, the rest goes to the front of the head.  If the thermostat is closed, some coolant goes back to the water pump via the bypass hose.  If the thermostat is open, coolant flows to the radiator.

Yes one of the heater outlets goes into the bottom hose and the other either goes to the heater control valve on the cylinder head or to the sandwich plate if you use an in line valve. If you run a water heated inlet manifold you can run the heater hose through there but you should not need it in California. Also if you are using a late 1275 engine and head (12G940) you can drill and tap the left side of the head and fit a heater control valve and do away with the sandwich plate. Don't forget the lower bracket is different also on the later shrouds but they are worth the effort to convert much simpler to remove and install.

Thanks for the description, I can almost visualize it.

I have a single piece shroud coming.

So on older carb systems the inlet manifold heater used the return heater hose and coolant went into the bottom hose.

On the SPi, a separate hose and return was used to feed the inlet manfold heater.

Some time, along time ago Murray wrote a description of coolant flow for the classic engines. I should have saved it...

Terry the Jap spec spi hose system runs like this (well i will try and explain it). The hose from the thermostat housing goes through the bulkhead to the heater core with a heater control valve in the line, it also has a moulded hose coming off the main one (different to the one you show) that goes to the inlet manifold to warm up the coolant temp sensor among other things.

The bottom hose should have four openings, two large ones for the radiator and water pump connection of course and two smaller ones, one goes to the heater core and the other goes to the inlet manifold underneath the other hose i mentioned.

Unless you are converting to full spi you do not need the spi hoses also i would change you radiator shroud to the later one piece along with the lower bracket which may straighten up your distance problem from the fan.

Were you told why it would not fit ? I have seen it done to a pick up in the UK and it came with the early style frame the same as yours. You would need to drill the two single mount holes for the top mounts and maybe use tubes in the holes for strength also use the rubber mounts in the other four locations but it should be doable.

I have been told that the latest MK IV+ subframes will not fit into a MK I body.

So my plan is to use the original subframe. I am worried about clearance on the radiator side as the radiator appears to be far away from the fan even when held parallel to the plane of the fan.

So mutiple issues to sort out...

Are you placing a MK IV+ subframe in the wagon? Is this to take advantage of the later subframe's forward engine position?